Tácticas reales SEAD

[Jordan]

En BMS han hablado del tema, y uno de ellos ha escrito un post impresionante que quería compartir, y que edito un poco para que sea más user-friendly:

 

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SEAD

Usually SEAD and especially DEAD doesn't only come in 1 Two-Ship of F-16's and is succesful after one run.

Usually it goes like this.

1.: Detect, ID, Track

Stationary Systems like SA-2,3,5 are easy to detect. You can even locate them on satellite pictures and measure exact coordinates of the radar, launchers, C2 facilities.
Mobile Systems like SA-6,8,9,11,13,17,19,22 (limited SA-10/20/21) are much harder to detect. Especially if they use tactics like EMCON (emission control), established an IADS (integrated Air defense system = connected systems that provide each other with redundant information. Like a Link 16 network.) JEZ (Joint engagement Zone) capability or - especially in the new systems - usw LPI (low probability of intercept) or ECCM (Electronic Counter Counter Measure) Techniques.
You can only find what you see.
And you need to know what you detect. In an IADS you will unless an engagement takes place, never see a indepentent search signal of a single SAM system. You have to crack it up by killing the EW (Early Warning Radars) first to force them to operate their Target Acquisition radards (TA).
A Target Tracking / Missile Guidance (MG) or Target Illuminator (TI) signal might not be long enough on, to locate the respective system and fight it.
So you might need to trigger a system controlled in order have it give up its position. Some systems use dislocated launchers (NASAMS) which you wont see on your RWR or HTS. Nasty stuff... but thats a different story.

By finding the system alone it ts not done yet. You also need a precise as much location. The HTS - unrealistically replicated in BMS - is not able to create pin point coordinates. It's just not possilble by the way it works! Trust me. Especially not Head / Tail On. There are aircraft in the worlds that specialize in detecting SAMS and providing these coordinates (RC-135, E-8, E-3A) and they will not provide you with coordinates that are precise enough to throw a JDAM or fire a cruise missile on it. A HARM its close enough since it has a Search Footprint on the ground and uses active emission of the target to home inboung the radar site.

2. Engage

Needs to be as quick and coordinated as possible. Especially mobile systems move fast. If they shut down move 1000 meters and start radiating from there, they will watch nice fireworks, when your bombs hit the old location and shoot you down anyways.

They almost never come alone! They are always in batteries. Maybe with data link. So a system outside its max missile range can illuminate you for a misslie shot by another system right underneath you which you didn't notice.

Your prios with SAMS should be.

1. Avoid (re-route, fly underneath the radar horizon or use terrainmasking)
2. Defeat (use the reaction time, fly beam attacks on protected targets, never fly head on! fly out maneuvers when you are engaged, usw decoys chaff and ECM! Never ever enter the Lethal Range (RMAX2 (never escape range))
3. Engage (Stand-off and -in Jammers, HARMS, Bombs, Cruise Missiles (you will need a lot...)

If you cannot do 1. or 2.:

You can fight it by Suppression (SEAD) or kill it permanently with DEAD.
SEAD can be achieved by using Jammers, AGM-88, maybe cyber attacks or sometimes by pure presence. You always should consider the HARM not being a duel weapon. If you fire it after you being engaged, the engagement will be complete prior to your missile even being close to the target. Because the Radar emission you fired it on (and thus its target) will be gone by the time it gets there - whereas you will be shot down hanging on your chute already.
AGM-88s should - if possible - be employed pre-emptive. This means you have an established contract when someone enters a known threat. When this happens the HARMS need to be on their way already. Accordingly spaced based on impact timing and also sorted by factor targets. One HARM will not be enough. It doesn't provide 100% Probablility ok kill (PK). So you wanna double target / multiple target a system if your loadout allows. You have to know the time, the bombers need protection. When start when stop. Can they manuever differently? Use stand-off? Terrain masking? Altitude/Speed to minimize exposure and the vulnerability window. The HARMS will now impact in a string. Either they switch off their radar, HARMS will miss but they can't engage or they engage and get hit by the missiles. Either way we achieved SUPPRESION

Quick Example:

Single SA-6 (Range is 15NM/RMAX2 10NM, Altitude 60000', Reactoin time 20 seconds from Acquisition to Missile launch)
Bomber Target 9 NM from the SAM. Attack Track head-on towards the SAM. Speed .8 Mach. Egress 180º out.
TOT at 12:00:00z

Protection required:
From entry of RMAX1 until Exit of RMAX2.
That means the bomber will fly 45 seconds towards the sam (15NM - 9NM = 6NM @.8M = 45s)
turn around 180º is roughly 15s
egress 9NM (TGT) until 10NM (RMAX2) is 7.5s.
Total Exposure to SAM= 1'08'' / 20seconds (reaction time) = 5 HARMS

1. Bomber at RMAX1
2. +20''
3. +40'' ...

Let's say they don't fly in there as a Single but in a 4-Ship (2 by 2) with 1 min spacign to cater for Bomb TOF, Frag down time, Smoke clearence...)

Protection required is now 2:10 minutes. Equivalent to 8 HARMS.

Lets say we now have two targets covered by two 4 ships.
Lets say we have another SA-8, SA-17 in there (require higher frequency HARM salvos sice they have lower reaction time).

It adds up to a number of HARMS, which you simply don't have! A 4-ship of F-16 carries 8 ... you do the math.

See why avoiding isn't too bad?

 

DEAD

DEAD is even more complex.
Besides Finding and locating the target you now need SEAD support for the DEAD Bombers. All well coordinated of course so nobody gets engaged. They probably have to work their Targeting Pods for 5-10 minutes to find a camouflaged SA-6 near a forest to get exact coordinates for their bombs because all you got so far is a rough estimate.


So all in a nutshell.. SEAD/DEAD is an ART! And it's even more complex then what BMS demonstrates us. Because otherwise we all would lose interest in flying these kind of missions since it's very very hard to simulate correctly. And let me tell you: even if you do it as perfectly as you can including, Electronic Support forces, Jammers, HARMS, Bombs, Pre-emptive HARM Shot plans and so on. It's still prone to fail since it is very dynamic an as much as a single SA-6 moved by 1NM in the last 2 hours from the last INTEL update can decide between success and fail of an entire operation resulting in many losses of aircraft and lifes.

If you have questions let me now

EDIT: Oh....and I didn't mention the advanced Systems Anti-ARM and -PGM capabilities They will make your life even harder...

 

"

 

 

Lástima que en BMS los SAM no se comporten de forma muy "realista", y nada más te vean normalmente se activen, lo que les hace un fácil blanco para los HARM. Al menos los de los TE que he probado .

Alguna vez, sin embargo, me acuerdo que hemos estado en alguna misión que se nos activaban de repente, o que no se llegaban a activar, eso sólo es posible en campañas, ¿no?

¿ Se podría con el MC toquetear algo para que esto ocurra?

 

Un saludo

Siento que sea en inglés... pero traducir esto sería bastante rollo..

Editado 8 de Junio del 2015 por Jordan

[Blackduke]

Muchas gracias por la info.

[3Balls]

En BMS a veces te llevas gratas sorpresas... pero muchas veces, esa sensación de "emboscada" o de "pillarte por sorpresa" responde a una deficiente gestión del Simulador a la hora de hacer que las unidades entren a "juagar" (3D), y otras porque hay más aviones en zona, y tienes la sensación de que el SAM pasa de ti, cuando en verdad lo que hace es matar a otros... generalmente en Campaña, como tu dices, cuando el aire esta saturado de vuelos aliados que no controlamos ni sabemos que andan por ahí.

 

Nada que se pueda toquetear.

 

Particularmente si hay una forma, para que durante una campaña, alguien haciendo de AOC, al tiempo que de AWACS etc, pueda activar o desactivar la actividad de SAMs en determinadas zonas.... pero este invento necesitaría de un programa (sencillo de hacer), externo a BMS, y por supuesto, alguien que "pulse el botón de matar"... o al menos, unas ROEs para que el programa se active solo...

 

Quizás algún dia lo haga para la academia Avanzada... De momento, contentaos con no ser derribados!

[Jordan]

Gracias 3balls!!! La verdad es que siempre había pensado que spartan hacía magia... jaj

Esperaremos ansiosos a tu programa pues..

[Tom Raisen]

La verdad es que siempre había pensado que spartan hacía magia...

Y no te equivoques: LA HACE

[Jordan]

Cierto....cierto.... Pensándolo bien, justo lo que tienen sus campañas es magia...

Esto de ser muggle es lo que tiene..

[mppzgz]

En BMS a veces te llevas gratas sorpresas... pero muchas veces, esa sensación de "emboscada" o de "pillarte por sorpresa" responde a una deficiente gestión del Simulador a la hora de hacer que las unidades entren a "juagar" (3D), y otras porque hay más aviones en zona, y tienes la sensación de que el SAM pasa de ti, cuando en verdad lo que hace es matar a otros... generalmente en Campaña, como tu dices, cuando el aire esta saturado de vuelos aliados que no controlamos ni sabemos que andan por ahí.

 

Nada que se pueda toquetear.

 

Particularmente si hay una forma, para que durante una campaña, alguien haciendo de AOC, al tiempo que de AWACS etc, pueda activar o desactivar la actividad de SAMs en determinadas zonas.... pero este invento necesitaría de un programa (sencillo de hacer), externo a BMS, y por supuesto, alguien que "pulse el botón de matar"... o al menos, unas ROEs para que el programa se active solo...

 

Quizás algún dia lo haga para la academia Avanzada... De momento, contentaos con no ser derribados!

Cuéntanos más de ese programa" trigger "por llamarlo de alguna manera.

 

Enviado desde mi XT1032 usando Tapatalk 2

[3Balls]

No puedo desvelarte pistas antes de terminar la campaña de POH. En ella, al inicio utilizo este método. Cuando la termine ya vendrá todo explicado.

 

Para escenarios o campañas "tuneadas" (como las que hace nuestro maestro Spartan), en las que realmente no le das profundidad a la campaña.. es más bien un TAC autogenerado bajo en engine de Campaña, ahí , aun con las limitaciones de BMS, se puede hacer algo curioso... pero Tenerlo todo, una campaña completa y poder tener un control sectorial y bueno de distintas zonas o anillos de SBAD, es casi imposible... Quizás en un SINAI... o algo así pequeño y apañadito...

 

En el fondo es una chorrada. Actualmente ese control se puede hacer a mano en tiempo real, pero obviamente siempre queda mejor un pequeño software en el que solo tengas que pulsar un boton y actives los SAMs de una zona u otras, ... En ese plan.

 

Un saludo!